1 00:00:12,350 --> 00:00:09,410 today we welcome dr. Julie by she'll to 2 00:00:14,990 --> 00:00:12,360 skeptic Oh Julie is the co-founder and 3 00:00:17,779 --> 00:00:15,000 director of research at the wind bridge 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:17,789 Research Center which really is the 5 00:00:25,220 --> 00:00:21,570 preeminent organisation for the study of 6 00:00:27,830 --> 00:00:25,230 mediums and mediumship in the world and 7 00:00:29,839 --> 00:00:27,840 as we just talked about for one hour 8 00:00:33,319 --> 00:00:29,849 because I forgot to press the record 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:33,329 button there's really two sides to 10 00:00:38,209 --> 00:00:35,010 saying that there's a good and a bad 11 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:38,219 side that this little research center 12 00:00:45,590 --> 00:00:41,910 that julie has started and kind of 13 00:00:47,569 --> 00:00:45,600 nurtured along for so long is really the 14 00:00:50,540 --> 00:00:47,579 best there is in the world it's a great 15 00:00:53,569 --> 00:00:50,550 testament to her and what she's done but 16 00:00:57,529 --> 00:00:53,579 it also is a little bit of a statement 17 00:01:00,790 --> 00:00:57,539 about where we are in general in trying 18 00:01:03,770 --> 00:01:00,800 to get a better handle on survival and 19 00:01:06,710 --> 00:01:03,780 consciousness studies that kind of go 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:06,720 against the mainstream neurological 21 00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:10,170 model that is rigidly holding on to its 22 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:12,990 position so Julie is also I should 23 00:01:16,910 --> 00:01:14,750 mention the author of several books 24 00:01:19,670 --> 00:01:16,920 related to this topic that you can find 25 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:19,680 on Amazon and she's just a great guest 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:22,920 and a great friend Julie welcome back to 27 00:01:27,289 --> 00:01:25,890 skeptical for for a third time because 28 00:01:28,429 --> 00:01:27,299 we just didn't interview a minute ago 29 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:28,439 yeah we did 30 00:01:32,270 --> 00:01:30,180 there's a lovely hour we just spent 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:32,280 together I'm pleased to be here thanks 32 00:01:36,590 --> 00:01:34,650 for having me yes it isn't and now see 33 00:01:39,039 --> 00:01:36,600 you took all the venom out of me so now 34 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:39,049 I have to be nice this time too so I 35 00:01:46,789 --> 00:01:44,610 guess that's the price I must pay so as 36 00:01:49,010 --> 00:01:46,799 I told folks you know the the real 37 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:49,020 impetus for this interview was that I 38 00:01:56,209 --> 00:01:53,090 got an email from you about this 39 00:01:58,340 --> 00:01:56,219 organizational change at Windridge that 40 00:02:01,399 --> 00:01:58,350 I think it's kind of interesting to tell 41 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:01,409 people about because the refocus that 42 00:02:07,399 --> 00:02:04,530 you have is really wonderful I think in 43 00:02:09,559 --> 00:02:07,409 some important ways so let's start my 44 00:02:11,660 --> 00:02:09,569 first of all before we jump ahead into 45 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:11,670 that for folks who don't know tell 46 00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:13,920 people a little bit about yourself 47 00:02:16,220 --> 00:02:15,300 about your background a lot of people 48 00:02:17,930 --> 00:02:16,230 know because they've listened to 49 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:17,940 sceptical before or because they've just 50 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:20,370 heard you other places but for those who 51 00:02:28,750 --> 00:02:24,510 don't give us the rundown on who Julie 52 00:02:32,630 --> 00:02:28,760 is and how you can do this work okay I 53 00:02:36,110 --> 00:02:32,640 am director of research of the Wynn bird 54 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:36,120 Research Center and which my husband is 55 00:02:40,790 --> 00:02:38,370 the executive director and the two of us 56 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:40,800 his name is Marco could see the two of 57 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:44,010 us founded the Wynn bridge Institute LLC 58 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:46,410 ten years ago and we had a lot of 59 00:02:52,220 --> 00:02:50,250 different interests and we were we 60 00:02:54,590 --> 00:02:52,230 certainly spread ourselves a little too 61 00:02:56,150 --> 00:02:54,600 thin and so we wanted to focus on what 62 00:02:58,100 --> 00:02:56,160 we were good at and what we were really 63 00:03:00,620 --> 00:02:58,110 interested in and so we started this new 64 00:03:02,690 --> 00:03:00,630 Arizona nonprofit corporation called the 65 00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:02,700 whim bridge Research Center and we're 66 00:03:08,479 --> 00:03:06,030 focusing specifically on research and 67 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:08,489 education around dying death and what 68 00:03:11,180 --> 00:03:09,450 comes next 69 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:11,190 yeah and Julie I know you've told this 70 00:03:15,979 --> 00:03:13,170 story a million times you don't have to 71 00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:15,989 tell the whole story but I think people 72 00:03:23,330 --> 00:03:19,950 are always fascinated by the story for 73 00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:23,340 how you came to even be interested in 74 00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:23,790 this 75 00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:26,910 and since what's so wonderful about what 76 00:03:31,699 --> 00:03:29,280 you do is the scientific rigor that you 77 00:03:34,910 --> 00:03:31,709 bring to this work I think people are 78 00:03:36,910 --> 00:03:34,920 interested to know that you're a PhD and 79 00:03:41,530 --> 00:03:36,920 not only you're a PhD but you're a PhD 80 00:03:43,970 --> 00:03:41,540 trained to kind of figure out strange 81 00:03:46,310 --> 00:03:43,980 phenomenon like this it kind of wrestle 82 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:46,320 it to the ground a little bit about your 83 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:49,650 background might be useful okay my PC is 84 00:03:54,590 --> 00:03:51,690 in pharmacology and toxicology with a 85 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:54,600 minor in microbiology and immunology so 86 00:04:00,470 --> 00:03:57,530 my training is in the hard sciences and 87 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:00,480 and I know how to apply the scientific 88 00:04:05,990 --> 00:04:03,480 method to anything so the science is a 89 00:04:07,729 --> 00:04:06,000 tool it's not a set of beliefs or set of 90 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:07,739 facts so you can apply it to anything 91 00:04:16,610 --> 00:04:11,130 and so when I was in graduate school 92 00:04:19,789 --> 00:04:16,620 getting my PhD my mom passed away and I 93 00:04:22,610 --> 00:04:19,799 had never heard of a medium i but that 94 00:04:25,490 --> 00:04:22,620 was around the time that John Edward was 95 00:04:27,629 --> 00:04:25,500 on TV show was really big so I thought 96 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:27,639 well that looks real those people look 97 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:30,849 moved and the information seems specific 98 00:04:35,189 --> 00:04:32,530 but I'm a scientist I need to see that 99 00:04:37,679 --> 00:04:35,199 for myself so I got a reading from a 100 00:04:39,869 --> 00:04:37,689 local medium and she knew things that 101 00:04:42,450 --> 00:04:39,879 there was no way that she could have 102 00:04:45,929 --> 00:04:42,460 known and I knew about cold reading I'd 103 00:04:48,989 --> 00:04:45,939 read out of read up on it and so I knew 104 00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:48,999 what she could learn just by seeing me 105 00:04:53,909 --> 00:04:52,270 and but she said a lot of things there's 106 00:04:56,879 --> 00:04:53,919 no way that she could have known and 107 00:04:59,670 --> 00:04:56,889 even things I didn't know that I had to 108 00:05:02,339 --> 00:04:59,680 check with other people in my family to 109 00:05:04,379 --> 00:05:02,349 verify that were true and there's a even 110 00:05:07,439 --> 00:05:04,389 weirder story that someone came in who I 111 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:07,449 didn't know and like a couple years 112 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:10,330 later I ended up dating a guy and he 113 00:05:15,570 --> 00:05:13,360 recognized that guy from my reading so 114 00:05:18,119 --> 00:05:15,580 there was like forward and backward in 115 00:05:24,209 --> 00:05:18,129 time issues it was very interesting and 116 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:24,219 so I went back to school and I talked to 117 00:05:27,540 --> 00:05:26,110 the other students and my professors and 118 00:05:29,939 --> 00:05:27,550 I told them about this experience that 119 00:05:31,559 --> 00:05:29,949 I'd had and like good scientists most of 120 00:05:32,850 --> 00:05:31,569 them said oh I don't know anything about 121 00:05:34,559 --> 00:05:32,860 that but that sounds like an interesting 122 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:34,569 experience and you're you know it 123 00:05:41,189 --> 00:05:37,960 clearly moved you and but a couple of 124 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:41,199 them when those people are all frauds 125 00:05:46,589 --> 00:05:44,110 and con artists you got duped and I was 126 00:05:49,649 --> 00:05:46,599 like no I didn't I'm a good scientist I 127 00:05:52,559 --> 00:05:49,659 was there and and I started to realize 128 00:05:55,050 --> 00:05:52,569 yeah there's a there's a huge movement 129 00:05:57,149 --> 00:05:55,060 of people who don't know anything about 130 00:05:59,399 --> 00:05:57,159 it and just have heard that and just 131 00:06:02,070 --> 00:05:59,409 parrot it back oh no they're all frauds 132 00:06:04,499 --> 00:06:02,080 and so I was like that's not fair and 133 00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:04,509 these people need a good scientist to 134 00:06:09,149 --> 00:06:06,430 apply the scientific method and bring 135 00:06:10,379 --> 00:06:09,159 this into the lab that's what they 136 00:06:13,679 --> 00:06:10,389 really need in the universe is like 137 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:13,689 really there you go it's you know and so 138 00:06:20,820 --> 00:06:17,289 I the universe conspired to put me on 139 00:06:24,749 --> 00:06:20,830 this path and yeah I've been doing it 140 00:06:27,659 --> 00:06:24,759 ever since and so my training is in hard 141 00:06:31,139 --> 00:06:27,669 science and so I can I'm good at 142 00:06:35,339 --> 00:06:31,149 protocol design and blinding and control 143 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:35,349 groups and yeah I can design the heck 144 00:06:39,869 --> 00:06:38,110 out of a study and you have it and one 145 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:39,879 of the things one of the reasons that I 146 00:06:44,090 --> 00:06:41,490 think you're so popular 147 00:06:47,150 --> 00:06:44,100 on skeptic oh is because our audience is 148 00:06:50,029 --> 00:06:47,160 very scientific minded and I think a lot 149 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:50,039 of people just blown away by the rigor 150 00:06:55,249 --> 00:06:52,650 that you apply and you know the gold 151 00:06:57,589 --> 00:06:55,259 standard really for medium research as 152 00:06:59,210 --> 00:06:57,599 some folks have called it and anyone who 153 00:07:00,830 --> 00:06:59,220 gets in there and looks at it knows 154 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:00,840 that's the case and you can go look at 155 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:02,130 some of the interviews we've done with 156 00:07:07,670 --> 00:07:04,710 Julie in the past and they stand up to 157 00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:07,680 all this kind of nonsensical silly 158 00:07:13,070 --> 00:07:10,620 skeptical kind of crap that's out there 159 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:13,080 and they just she just destroys him she 160 00:07:17,210 --> 00:07:15,330 just destroys him over and over again by 161 00:07:20,420 --> 00:07:17,220 good science isn't that what we really 162 00:07:21,770 --> 00:07:20,430 want after all but you know what I was 163 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:21,780 really struck by and I wanted you to 164 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:26,160 speak to is I love what you've said here 165 00:07:31,010 --> 00:07:28,410 about the wounded research center 166 00:07:33,020 --> 00:07:31,020 because when we get past the battle of 167 00:07:35,029 --> 00:07:33,030 consciousness you know and his 168 00:07:37,550 --> 00:07:35,039 consciousness a product of the brain 169 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:37,560 every biological robot said did we say 170 00:07:43,820 --> 00:07:40,470 on a deeper level you know what is the 171 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:43,830 deep spirituality associated with 172 00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:46,770 mediumship and by that I mean how does 173 00:07:51,490 --> 00:07:48,990 it really affect people's lives in a 174 00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:51,500 positive way and I was really quite 175 00:07:56,330 --> 00:07:54,720 taken by the mission statement that 176 00:08:00,040 --> 00:07:56,340 you've written from memory Research 177 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:00,050 Center and and I love to ease suffering 178 00:08:05,719 --> 00:08:03,210 around death dying in what comes next 179 00:08:08,629 --> 00:08:05,729 and I just felt myself like exhaling and 180 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:08,639 going yeah there's a lot of suffering 181 00:08:14,270 --> 00:08:11,570 around Minnis and wouldn't it be cool if 182 00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:14,280 science if rigorous scientific research 183 00:08:19,939 --> 00:08:17,070 could actually alleviate some of that 184 00:08:23,450 --> 00:08:19,949 suffering so talk to us for a minute 185 00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:23,460 about this mission statement and what it 186 00:08:27,399 --> 00:08:25,409 means to you and why you chose those 187 00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:27,409 words 188 00:08:33,409 --> 00:08:30,630 well first I'm very detail-oriented and 189 00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:33,419 I never liked the way that it was often 190 00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:36,360 said death and dying because dying comes 191 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:38,820 before death so I put them in 192 00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:40,050 chronological order 193 00:08:46,579 --> 00:08:42,630 dying death and what comes next and I 194 00:08:48,350 --> 00:08:46,589 feel like sometimes I'm not a channel or 195 00:08:51,890 --> 00:08:48,360 I'm not a medium not a psychic but 196 00:08:54,199 --> 00:08:51,900 sometimes phrases in parapsychology it's 197 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:54,209 called anomalous attention that 198 00:08:57,710 --> 00:08:55,410 something comes 199 00:09:00,199 --> 00:08:57,720 you and you say that's meaningful what 200 00:09:01,819 --> 00:09:00,209 that's going to be something and I had I 201 00:09:02,569 --> 00:09:01,829 don't know where I heard it in a movie 202 00:09:05,689 --> 00:09:02,579 in a book 203 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:05,699 what comes next and I and I grasped onto 204 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:07,980 that I thought that was really a good 205 00:09:12,199 --> 00:09:10,290 way to describe because we're interested 206 00:09:14,269 --> 00:09:12,209 in what happens next for the person that 207 00:09:18,319 --> 00:09:14,279 died and what happens next for the 208 00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:18,329 living that are still around and and 209 00:09:26,889 --> 00:09:22,910 grieving but that loss so we wanted to 210 00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:26,899 use rigorous scientific research to 211 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:30,750 collect data and make conclusions that 212 00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:32,910 we then could share with a variety of 213 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:36,000 audiences let me just interject for a 214 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:37,889 minute because you know you say that 215 00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:40,410 just because that second nature that's 216 00:09:47,090 --> 00:09:43,740 who you are if that's PhD pharmacology 217 00:09:49,429 --> 00:09:47,100 and toxicology right but it's different 218 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:49,439 it's different in this field you bring 219 00:09:54,230 --> 00:09:51,810 that here in a way that's really 220 00:09:56,210 --> 00:09:54,240 important and as I was relating to 221 00:09:58,009 --> 00:09:56,220 choose them indigo that really struck me 222 00:10:00,980 --> 00:09:58,019 from a long time ago from years ago when 223 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:00,990 I met you is that and especially in its 224 00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:02,970 you into the gender differences thing 225 00:10:08,210 --> 00:10:06,240 but especially guys you know guys a lot 226 00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:08,220 of times we need the data you know we 227 00:10:12,139 --> 00:10:10,380 need the data and then we feel that we 228 00:10:13,699 --> 00:10:12,149 can kind of maybe venture into some of 229 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:13,709 those feelings that we have if we have 230 00:10:19,639 --> 00:10:17,130 the data and I love that that you know 231 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:19,649 that's not just that's something that 232 00:10:26,449 --> 00:10:23,370 you obviously had a certain affinity to 233 00:10:29,870 --> 00:10:26,459 as well as the science and the data as a 234 00:10:33,170 --> 00:10:29,880 way to kind of move forward so talk to 235 00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:33,180 God talk on dr. a second so as a society 236 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:37,279 we rely on science to move forward it 237 00:10:43,579 --> 00:10:41,970 drives policy it you know it's what 238 00:10:47,929 --> 00:10:43,589 medications are allowing that's all 239 00:10:50,210 --> 00:10:47,939 science what foods are in the world what 240 00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:50,220 things are so how we eat food without 241 00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:54,500 what suggested so so clearly our society 242 00:10:59,780 --> 00:10:57,600 whole hold science as an authority and 243 00:11:01,699 --> 00:10:59,790 yeah I've always had a pretty election 244 00:11:05,420 --> 00:11:01,709 for science when I was in eighth grade I 245 00:11:07,790 --> 00:11:05,430 won the science award in my class so I 246 00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:07,800 have always been a scientist I don't 247 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:08,350 know how to 248 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:12,130 think any other way and that's my so 249 00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:14,650 when I had a question when my mom died 250 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:17,440 and and I was seeing mediums on TV I've 251 00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:20,470 used science to get to be the answers to 252 00:11:25,140 --> 00:11:22,960 my questions but science is just one way 253 00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:25,150 of knowing and people's experience 254 00:11:33,620 --> 00:11:28,000 that's another way of knowing and so but 255 00:11:36,210 --> 00:11:33,630 I'm a scientist so I I use my method and 256 00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:36,220 that's what I can share with people our 257 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:39,430 data and that does convince people and 258 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:41,140 that does help people and alleviate 259 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:43,690 suffering for some people to know that I 260 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:45,850 brought mediums into the laboratory and 261 00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:47,850 I controlled for all the things that 262 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:50,260 people could say oh no it's just this 263 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:51,730 like you know I controlled for all of 264 00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:53,800 that they have no access to the sitter 265 00:11:57,540 --> 00:11:55,600 during the reading so they can't do cold 266 00:11:59,520 --> 00:11:57,550 reading the sitter receives two readings 267 00:12:01,260 --> 00:11:59,530 to score one is there's one isn't they 268 00:12:05,610 --> 00:12:01,270 don't know which is which so the rater 269 00:12:07,470 --> 00:12:05,620 bias is is equalized I don't know 270 00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:07,480 anything about the deceased or the 271 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:10,060 sitter so I can't to the medium so all 272 00:12:14,430 --> 00:12:12,070 of those things are taken care of and it 273 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:14,440 still was happening they still could do 274 00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:17,410 it and so we published a paper a couple 275 00:12:23,610 --> 00:12:19,990 years ago where 20 mediums performed 58 276 00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:23,620 readings and the accuracy data reach 277 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:25,600 statistical significance three different 278 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:27,850 kinds of accuracy scoring item by item 279 00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:30,490 scoring whole reading scoring and 280 00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:31,120 forced-choice 281 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:32,680 pick which reading of those two you 282 00:12:36,330 --> 00:12:34,210 think is yours so there's clearly 283 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:36,340 something going on and that helps people 284 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:39,490 like yourself and like me go okay 285 00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:43,930 there's something going on here it also 286 00:12:49,290 --> 00:12:46,300 helps the people that that should know 287 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:49,300 about that and are and we trust with 288 00:12:53,370 --> 00:12:51,580 telling other people about it right so 289 00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:53,380 that's that's the other part of your 290 00:12:58,410 --> 00:12:56,800 mission is sharing that information not 291 00:13:00,750 --> 00:12:58,420 just with the general public but that's 292 00:13:03,210 --> 00:13:00,760 something you do but also sharing it 293 00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:03,220 with health care providers sharing it 294 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:05,830 with nurses doctors sharing with you 295 00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:07,330 mention unto God that was just an 296 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:09,430 excellent point and maybe we'll bring it 297 00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:11,650 up to the front of this interview but to 298 00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:13,870 think about that situation that we all 299 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:17,160 know that exists and that's that someone 300 00:13:22,620 --> 00:13:21,430 loses someone they're in grief and yet 301 00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:22,630 they feel that person's 302 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:25,660 presence they hear that person and they 303 00:13:30,090 --> 00:13:27,250 go oh my gosh what's good what's wrong 304 00:13:33,629 --> 00:13:30,100 with me they go see a mental health care 305 00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:33,639 professional oh my gosh I can only hope 306 00:13:38,249 --> 00:13:35,350 we're past the point where that person 307 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,259 says oh my god you're crazy either they 308 00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:40,000 say directly or indirectly they take 309 00:13:44,730 --> 00:13:42,670 this medication we have to get this 310 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:44,740 information out there we have to stop 311 00:13:50,249 --> 00:13:47,110 that from happening right yeah and like 312 00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:50,259 you know and I'm really worried they're 313 00:13:55,769 --> 00:13:53,620 medicating young children schizophrenic 314 00:14:00,420 --> 00:13:55,779 because they're saying they're hearing 315 00:14:03,449 --> 00:14:00,430 voices like we need like we are we try 316 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:03,459 and take what we know and provide it to 317 00:14:08,579 --> 00:14:06,730 different audiences so researchers I 318 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:08,589 know how to speak researcher and so 319 00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:11,110 we're working hard on trying to take 320 00:14:16,889 --> 00:14:14,350 this information and convey it in a way 321 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:16,899 that the general public it's good for 322 00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,370 them clinicians so they know about the 323 00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:22,959 reality like I was at a conference with 324 00:14:27,679 --> 00:14:25,990 clinicians once and they were I talked 325 00:14:30,449 --> 00:14:27,689 to one woman and she was tremendously 326 00:14:32,819 --> 00:14:30,459 surprised that the mediums on our team 327 00:14:35,009 --> 00:14:32,829 don't walk up to people in the grocery 328 00:14:36,540 --> 00:14:35,019 store parking lot give them messages no 329 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:36,550 that's completely unethical 330 00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:39,130 our mediums don't do that that they 331 00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,959 agree to a code of ethics and that 332 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:43,120 including you don't provide information 333 00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:45,910 to someone who didn't ask for it because 334 00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:47,920 you don't know if they're ready to hear 335 00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:52,120 it that's a very big concept to get your 336 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:53,529 head around and the PERT the grieving 337 00:14:58,259 --> 00:14:54,970 person might not be ready for it I've 338 00:14:59,970 --> 00:14:58,269 had I've heard mediums say that in a 339 00:15:01,410 --> 00:14:59,980 grocery store line the deceased were 340 00:15:02,999 --> 00:15:01,420 that you have to tell my wife you have 341 00:15:05,460 --> 00:15:03,009 to tell my wife this message and they 342 00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:05,470 the mediums say no I don't I'm not going 343 00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:07,120 to do that you're gonna have to fight 344 00:15:11,850 --> 00:15:10,089 you have to encourage her to ask me what 345 00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:11,860 I do for a living that's as far as I go 346 00:15:15,809 --> 00:15:13,839 but I'm not gonna like tap your wife on 347 00:15:19,439 --> 00:15:15,819 the shoulder and say I have a message 348 00:15:22,769 --> 00:15:19,449 for you so there are things about what 349 00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:22,779 mediumship really is in the real world 350 00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:24,220 that's different than how it's portrayed 351 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:26,680 on TV for example and people don't know 352 00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:28,930 that and clinicians don't know that and 353 00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:31,870 I so I'm really worried yeah that people 354 00:15:36,070 --> 00:15:34,959 are being medicated for mediumistic 355 00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:36,080 experiences when 356 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:38,750 that's it's very common and after yeah I 357 00:15:42,910 --> 00:15:40,370 think that one of the big things is 358 00:15:47,470 --> 00:15:42,920 after death communication with a loved 359 00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:47,480 one is very common and people think it's 360 00:15:54,430 --> 00:15:50,840 weird but it's very common and so again 361 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:54,440 that even that little nugget like oh no 362 00:15:58,570 --> 00:15:56,510 no that totally happens you're not weird 363 00:16:00,250 --> 00:15:58,580 at all that alleviates suffering right 364 00:16:02,290 --> 00:16:00,260 there and then that makes the person 365 00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:02,300 more open to it the next time and it's 366 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:04,880 comforting the experience rather than it 367 00:16:10,690 --> 00:16:07,490 being stressful like oh no it's weird 368 00:16:12,220 --> 00:16:10,700 I'm crazy I'm turning psycho no it's 369 00:16:14,950 --> 00:16:12,230 it's very common after death 370 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:14,960 communication is very common and so 371 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:18,830 we're trying to convey those kinds of 372 00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:21,490 facts and that evidence-based 373 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:24,590 information to the public and to all 374 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:26,270 these different audiences clinicians and 375 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:28,370 then we use the word clinicians for 376 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:30,710 mental health and healthcare providers 377 00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:33,130 and we use the word practitioner for 378 00:16:37,510 --> 00:16:35,780 mediums and psychics because they also 379 00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:37,520 need to know and it can alleviate 380 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:39,440 suffering in them the kinds of things we 381 00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:41,060 learned like one of the mediums on my 382 00:16:45,730 --> 00:16:42,470 team I was talking to her the other day 383 00:16:49,450 --> 00:16:45,740 and I was telling her about this the 384 00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:49,460 results of the studying that we we did a 385 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:54,680 study where we had 122 self-identified 386 00:16:58,570 --> 00:16:56,570 mediums described their experiences 387 00:17:00,100 --> 00:16:58,580 during communication with the deceased 388 00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:00,110 and during psychic readings for the 389 00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:03,860 living and they as we've we've learned 390 00:17:07,570 --> 00:17:06,020 and in research with just the mediums 391 00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:07,580 that our team missed a few meetings on 392 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:09,940 our team it seems to be a what we call 393 00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:12,410 multimodal experience so they see things 394 00:17:15,850 --> 00:17:13,699 they hear things they smell things they 395 00:17:17,020 --> 00:17:15,860 taste things they feel things and so 396 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:17,030 it's telling the medium that she was 397 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:19,130 like oh I thought it was everyone was 398 00:17:24,370 --> 00:17:21,250 just clairvoyant there it was just 399 00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:24,380 visual was just seeing and she like felt 400 00:17:31,150 --> 00:17:27,920 comforted how do you not know that in my 401 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:31,160 research team but we you know she's not 402 00:17:35,770 --> 00:17:34,130 reading my research papers so we need to 403 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:35,780 be able to convey this stuff to 404 00:17:40,270 --> 00:17:38,090 different audiences in different ways so 405 00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:40,280 that it alleviates suffering for all the 406 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:43,280 different segments of who were serving 407 00:17:48,919 --> 00:17:47,250 we're a charity we're serving people 408 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:48,929 different groups I'm glad you and glad 409 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:50,130 you clarified that because we're going 410 00:17:54,649 --> 00:17:51,600 to talk more about that for a minute in 411 00:17:57,140 --> 00:17:54,659 a minute you know you're speaking a 412 00:17:58,940 --> 00:17:57,150 minute ago to me about I don't know if 413 00:18:00,860 --> 00:17:58,950 was the same study or another survey 414 00:18:05,299 --> 00:18:00,870 that you did that had some rather 415 00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:05,309 amazing findings to it that that kind of 416 00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:07,860 clarify for people I think example you 417 00:18:19,250 --> 00:18:16,289 gave me was that most people well what I 418 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:19,260 heard you say let me let me let me tie 419 00:18:23,299 --> 00:18:21,510 it back to it let me scratch edit all 420 00:18:27,380 --> 00:18:23,309 that out because what I really wanted to 421 00:18:29,899 --> 00:18:27,390 say is I think that highlights maybe the 422 00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:29,909 need that you're trying to serve and the 423 00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:31,559 need that you have right now which is to 424 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:35,700 get funding for this project because who 425 00:18:39,770 --> 00:18:38,490 else is gonna do this kind of research I 426 00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,780 mean the research you just talked about 427 00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:41,760 we just highlighted a couple of reasons 428 00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:46,799 why it's so necessary yeah data point 429 00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:48,750 like the things that we've learned in 430 00:18:55,549 --> 00:18:51,510 this survey study are amazing we we did 431 00:18:57,230 --> 00:18:55,559 online survey and multiple parts some of 432 00:19:01,010 --> 00:18:57,240 your listeners may have participated it 433 00:19:03,529 --> 00:19:01,020 was called the octo study the Sam study 434 00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:03,539 in the Cinco study and the octo study we 435 00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:06,600 collected online data from 1,300 people 436 00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:09,030 a thousand people who were not mediums 437 00:19:13,610 --> 00:19:11,640 and 300 people who were mediums and then 438 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:13,620 those people were invited to participate 439 00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:16,230 in the Sam's and the Cinco studies and 440 00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:18,150 we collected even more information and 441 00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:19,830 we learned some really interesting 442 00:19:24,260 --> 00:19:22,950 things like I was really surprised he'd 443 00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,270 been by some of it 444 00:19:29,659 --> 00:19:26,960 one thing being it we took those 445 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:29,669 descriptions that those mediums gave of 446 00:19:34,580 --> 00:19:31,890 the communication with the deceased and 447 00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:34,590 then psychic readings for the living and 448 00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:37,470 week we use computerized text analysis 449 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:39,150 to quantitatively analyze their 450 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:41,130 responses and we use content analysis to 451 00:19:45,649 --> 00:19:43,770 qualitatively analyze their responses 452 00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:45,659 and we have a paper coming out detailing 453 00:19:50,930 --> 00:19:48,240 those results but one of the really 454 00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:50,940 interesting things was even when they 455 00:19:55,549 --> 00:19:53,100 were describing psychic readings for the 456 00:19:58,610 --> 00:19:55,559 living their experiences included 457 00:20:00,289 --> 00:19:58,620 communication with the deceased so and 458 00:20:00,930 --> 00:20:00,299 often it was just so they didn't say it 459 00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:00,940 like this 460 00:20:04,890 --> 00:20:02,980 and I don't mean to be flip like random 461 00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,900 deceased people it was not people that 462 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:06,880 were associated with the sitter or that 463 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:09,250 even the meeting knew it was people sort 464 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:11,170 of passing by like oh here's some 465 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:12,490 information about this living person 466 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:15,850 that you're talking to and so this just 467 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:17,530 to clarify for people you know there's 468 00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:19,770 always been this kind of divide between 469 00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:22,780 psychics and mediums and what you're 470 00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:25,390 saying there I think in short formulas 471 00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:30,790 the lines are much blurrier than you 472 00:20:35,670 --> 00:20:32,620 know a minute ago we talked about I mean 473 00:20:38,460 --> 00:20:35,680 or more evidence piles up the if 474 00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:38,470 you want to get real sciency about this 475 00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:41,200 and try and it from a supersize or a big 476 00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:43,660 glob of consciousness more and more of 477 00:20:49,650 --> 00:20:45,550 the evidence that your evidence seems to 478 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:49,660 point to there really are some kind of 479 00:20:54,330 --> 00:20:52,260 there's some kind of reality to this I 480 00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,340 know you didn't like the extent that 481 00:20:58,830 --> 00:20:56,320 consciousness realms kind of thing but 482 00:21:02,910 --> 00:20:58,840 these spirits are out there right and 483 00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:02,920 what do you make of that I don't think 484 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:07,270 that that it it needs to be something 485 00:21:12,270 --> 00:21:09,490 that like you really have to shift your 486 00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:12,280 worldview like your existence is that 487 00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:17,320 you are in this meat bag and so and the 488 00:21:22,620 --> 00:21:19,830 data show that we're really only 489 00:21:26,130 --> 00:21:22,630 tenuously tied to our body like they've 490 00:21:29,340 --> 00:21:26,140 done research with VR goggles and they 491 00:21:31,890 --> 00:21:29,350 put the camera on a mannequin and so 492 00:21:34,590 --> 00:21:31,900 when you look down the camera looks at 493 00:21:36,210 --> 00:21:34,600 the mannequin and if someone stabs the 494 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:36,220 mannequin you have an adrenaline 495 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:39,010 response it's really easy for you to 496 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:41,890 convince your brain your mind like oh no 497 00:21:45,870 --> 00:21:43,930 we're over here now like we're only you 498 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:45,880 only think you're in your body because 499 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:47,830 you're receiving constant feedback that 500 00:21:52,410 --> 00:21:50,890 you are but it's really easy to fool the 501 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:52,420 mind into thinking that you're somewhere 502 00:21:57,420 --> 00:21:55,210 else so we're very like loosely tied in 503 00:21:59,820 --> 00:21:57,430 here to begin with in our regular life 504 00:22:02,090 --> 00:21:59,830 so you're just gonna be you you're just 505 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:02,100 going to be not in your body anymore 506 00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:06,010 yeah that's that's tough because that 507 00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:08,470 touches on some of the let me ask that 508 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:11,100 question I mean what does that say about 509 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:13,930 so many spiritual traditions that are 510 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:14,890 telling us 511 00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:17,260 exactly that particularly that the 512 00:22:22,620 --> 00:22:19,780 eastern yogic traditions are saying 513 00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:22,630 exactly that that you this reality that 514 00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:24,820 you form inside your head by this 515 00:22:32,670 --> 00:22:29,790 constant stream of thoughts is easily 516 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:32,680 dismissed by any kind of careful 517 00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:34,810 analysis any kind of meditation that 518 00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:37,540 realizes you are the observer I mean 519 00:22:42,090 --> 00:22:40,060 this is kind of basics of a lot of 520 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:42,100 Eastern spiritual traditions 521 00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:45,970 it in a way to be kind of pointing in 522 00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:48,460 that direction as well yeah and I think 523 00:22:59,700 --> 00:22:53,220 in the Eastern traditions a lot of times 524 00:23:02,520 --> 00:22:59,710 meditation is focus he focuses you into 525 00:23:04,590 --> 00:23:02,530 your body like clearly it implies we're 526 00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:04,600 in this life to be in this body to have 527 00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:07,480 this experience but it's not that's not 528 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:12,760 the end of it and so but there are other 529 00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:15,730 traditions where the meditation is to is 530 00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:18,640 to like forget that the body exists and 531 00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:22,440 sort of being released from the body and 532 00:23:31,580 --> 00:23:27,120 I think it sort of all plays into your 533 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:31,590 just your consciousness and right like 534 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:34,450 dreaming that's a altered state of 535 00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:36,850 consciousness that people have regularly 536 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:39,520 like you have activity and you know 537 00:23:43,410 --> 00:23:41,770 there's a plot and you met people and 538 00:23:45,210 --> 00:23:43,420 you saw things and you did things and 539 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:45,220 you wake up and you go yeah none of that 540 00:23:48,450 --> 00:23:47,110 happened yeah no it didn't 541 00:23:50,370 --> 00:23:48,460 and I don't know I won't say that 542 00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:50,380 because maybe it did right there are 543 00:23:54,210 --> 00:23:52,630 people think that dream reality is of 544 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:54,220 real reality and I don't have any 545 00:23:59,700 --> 00:23:57,250 evidence that it is it well the problem 546 00:24:02,730 --> 00:23:59,710 with that is lucid dreaming kind of 547 00:24:05,340 --> 00:24:02,740 falls right in between those two lines 548 00:24:07,230 --> 00:24:05,350 there and starts blurring it as does you 549 00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:07,240 know astral projection and channeling 550 00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:09,790 which is really weird and stuff like 551 00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:12,820 that but then there's some bordering on 552 00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:15,670 scientific evidence that that's real too 553 00:24:20,910 --> 00:24:17,830 or that that can stand a certain degree 554 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:20,920 of scientific scrutiny so there's all 555 00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:23,200 these aspects to consciousness that are 556 00:24:28,170 --> 00:24:25,630 just waiting to be explored once we get 557 00:24:28,860 --> 00:24:28,180 past this rigid idea that it has to be 558 00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:28,870 cranked 559 00:24:34,830 --> 00:24:32,020 back into the body and be blunt and I am 560 00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:34,840 interested in all of them but to be good 561 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:36,640 at it I have to pick one and I have to 562 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:39,610 study that so I've been doing mediumship 563 00:24:43,770 --> 00:24:41,710 and life after death 564 00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:43,780 survival consciousness research for ten 565 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:47,760 years probably close to 15 now and 566 00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:49,930 that's what I'm good at and I'm going to 567 00:24:57,540 --> 00:24:55,120 keep doing that and in with the purpose 568 00:24:59,070 --> 00:24:57,550 of alleviating suffering because at the 569 00:25:02,010 --> 00:24:59,080 you know there's a lot like you can 570 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:02,020 spend hours in philosophical discussion 571 00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:04,330 about what's going on but at the end of 572 00:25:08,430 --> 00:25:06,640 the day we're interested at the windward 573 00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:08,440 Research Center in how can it help 574 00:25:13,169 --> 00:25:10,990 people and that's the bottom line and 575 00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:13,179 that's what we're trying to serve people 576 00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:14,740 and we're trying to answer those 577 00:25:19,620 --> 00:25:18,190 questions and there's no funding for for 578 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:19,630 these kinds of things and so we're 579 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:23,110 really relying on public support to be 580 00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:24,730 able to continue doing what we're doing 581 00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:26,500 and so I encourage people to join our 582 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:30,940 email list at Wynn bridgework I think 583 00:25:38,150 --> 00:25:32,110 we're going to start to offer 584 00:25:41,970 --> 00:25:38,160 memberships in 2018 and have member only 585 00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:41,980 members will receive priority first 586 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:44,080 access to research findings and we'll do 587 00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:46,450 you online remember only online events 588 00:25:52,770 --> 00:25:49,840 with with researchers and mediums and 589 00:25:55,919 --> 00:25:52,780 people can ask questions live and so if 590 00:26:00,780 --> 00:25:55,929 people would like to be notified of 591 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:00,790 those kinds of things and I'm forgetting 592 00:26:04,830 --> 00:26:02,650 what I talked to you about in the first 593 00:26:07,530 --> 00:26:04,840 hour and what I talk to you about though 594 00:26:09,030 --> 00:26:07,540 please join our email list and be 595 00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:09,040 notified when we're putting up new 596 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:10,990 videos and fact sheets and papers and 597 00:26:14,190 --> 00:26:13,330 all kinds of things again you're in such 598 00:26:17,130 --> 00:26:14,200 a unique position 599 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:17,140 I just really hope people support this 600 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:18,970 because it has to continue and you have 601 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:21,900 to continue doing art well thank you 602 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:25,050 let's talk about where mediumship is 603 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:28,330 fitting and evolving into the mainstream 604 00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,610 culture because you know there's two 605 00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:32,880 ways of looking at it one is people go 606 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:35,470 mediumship I know that's that's so 607 00:26:40,530 --> 00:26:38,890 accepted now you know there's the Long 608 00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:40,540 Island medium there's all these other 609 00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:42,480 shows there's all these wee 610 00:26:48,530 --> 00:26:45,679 right and yet at the same time there's a 611 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:48,540 scientific community that doesn't accept 612 00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,970 it and you've made some headway in that 613 00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:52,559 area too you know one of the things I 614 00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:54,809 pulled off your website is you did this 615 00:27:01,789 --> 00:26:58,799 kind of little interview session at goop 616 00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:01,799 which is Gweneth Paltrow super 617 00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:05,790 high-profile and successful webpage 618 00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:09,270 lifestyle health lifestyle thing so in 619 00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,190 some ways it's good news bad news and 620 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:12,960 some of the questions were very basic 621 00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:15,480 you know way back to the beginning but 622 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:18,360 you did a nice job of answering those so 623 00:27:26,299 --> 00:27:21,890 what do you think about mediumship and 624 00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:26,309 its acceptance by the mainstream whether 625 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:27,480 that's happening whether that's 626 00:27:31,789 --> 00:27:29,730 happening as fast as you bought her or 627 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:31,799 just any thoughts you have on that I 628 00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:34,770 think a lot more people know what a 629 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:37,500 medium is now because it is appearing in 630 00:27:44,990 --> 00:27:40,710 the popular culture I think the problem 631 00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:45,000 with that is they have a skewed idea of 632 00:27:48,830 --> 00:27:46,740 what a medium is and does because all 633 00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:48,840 they're seeing are how the mediums are 634 00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:50,790 portrayed on TV which does not reflect 635 00:27:59,659 --> 00:27:56,940 how it works in reality and but at least 636 00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,669 what what do you mean when you say that 637 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:00,960 what are some of the things that jump 638 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:03,690 out would you say it's not how it works 639 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:05,970 in reality because again let's remind 640 00:28:12,860 --> 00:28:10,410 people you work with mediums a lot you 641 00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:12,870 know and and that's giving you this kind 642 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:16,190 of unique perspective on both the 643 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:18,510 misperceptions and the misconceptions 644 00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:20,250 that the general public has about 645 00:28:25,159 --> 00:28:23,070 mediums but I also found fascinating 646 00:28:28,610 --> 00:28:25,169 which you touched on a minute ago is the 647 00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:28,620 misconception that mediums have about 648 00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:31,980 both the work that they do and the work 649 00:28:36,919 --> 00:28:34,169 that other meetings of their colleagues 650 00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:36,929 is so you had some interesting thoughts 651 00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:39,240 on that do you anything more to add yeah 652 00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:42,270 I think the survey study results are 653 00:28:47,030 --> 00:28:43,470 going to be really interesting I was 654 00:28:48,770 --> 00:28:47,040 surprised by a lot of them one being we 655 00:28:52,220 --> 00:28:48,780 asked the question do you charge for 656 00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:52,230 readings and 30% of the mediums who 657 00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:54,960 responded said no I don't I was really 658 00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:56,220 surprised by that 659 00:29:01,310 --> 00:28:58,500 I thought that like the mediums on our 660 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:01,320 team were representative of the general 661 00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:03,090 population and I don't I don't think 662 00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:07,440 that's entirely true and yeah I say 663 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:09,120 people don't know how mediumship works 664 00:29:14,090 --> 00:29:10,890 in the real world and neither do I I 665 00:29:16,010 --> 00:29:14,100 know how it works in the laboratory but 666 00:29:18,049 --> 00:29:16,020 I'm not like spending time with mediums 667 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:18,059 or I only ever got one mediumship 668 00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:20,610 reading in my life so I know how it 669 00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:24,240 works under the microscope and I've 670 00:29:29,539 --> 00:29:27,030 talked to them and I know I've heard 671 00:29:30,890 --> 00:29:29,549 their frustrations but what are some of 672 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:30,900 the misconceptions that people have 673 00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:34,110 about how it works even under the 674 00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:37,110 microscope I mean you mentioned a minute 675 00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:40,799 ago about telling a medium explaining to 676 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,919 a medium that not everyone was clear 677 00:29:47,779 --> 00:29:46,080 audio you know and that that was 678 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:47,789 surprising to them I mean what are some 679 00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:50,450 things you found out about how 680 00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:54,480 mediumship works in the lab that mediums 681 00:29:59,720 --> 00:29:57,240 found surprising well most of the 682 00:30:02,600 --> 00:29:59,730 mediums on our team were interested in 683 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:02,610 becoming research mediums like our 684 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:04,620 testing our certification is not just to 685 00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:08,610 like test mediums and give them a stamp 686 00:30:12,890 --> 00:30:10,140 of approval we wanted to gather a team 687 00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:12,900 of mediums that we could do research 688 00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:14,760 with and that they understood research 689 00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,929 and they were interested and they can 690 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:17,760 help us with protocol design because a 691 00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,650 lot of times I I send an email and I go 692 00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:21,840 hey we're thinking about doing this do 693 00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:23,940 you do this and they go no but we can do 694 00:30:27,919 --> 00:30:26,100 this and they give me alternatives of 695 00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:27,929 the way that we could study what they do 696 00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:33,000 in a way that they could do it and so 697 00:30:37,130 --> 00:30:35,340 that's really helpful to really 698 00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:37,140 understand but most of them are on the 699 00:30:42,049 --> 00:30:40,260 team because they have questions too 700 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:42,059 about what's happening to them and how 701 00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,010 they can do what they do and how the 702 00:30:48,490 --> 00:30:46,080 brain is involved and you know those 703 00:30:51,860 --> 00:30:48,500 kinds of things and a lot of them were 704 00:30:53,630 --> 00:30:51,870 excited to be on a team of other people 705 00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:53,640 who have experiences similar to theirs 706 00:30:59,360 --> 00:30:56,520 because some of them you know live their 707 00:31:03,350 --> 00:30:59,370 lives being an oddball and no one 708 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:03,360 understanding their their experiences 709 00:31:07,789 --> 00:31:05,730 and so to be part of a team that the 710 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:07,799 sole purpose is to learn more about what 711 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:10,130 you do that was really encouraging that 712 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:15,530 hated suffering in them I think and you 713 00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:16,910 know one of the things he talked about 714 00:31:20,110 --> 00:31:18,710 the last time you run and I wonder if 715 00:31:23,230 --> 00:31:20,120 there's any update on that 716 00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:23,240 is that there's even a physical 717 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:26,270 dimension to that that you discovered 718 00:31:30,010 --> 00:31:28,610 that I think is probably going to be 719 00:31:33,220 --> 00:31:30,020 surprising to people do you have any 720 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:33,230 updated information about illness the 721 00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,090 physical effects either the the 722 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:39,440 pre-existing that somehow might be 723 00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:41,480 related to their mediumship or that 724 00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:44,720 comes as a part of being a medium I mean 725 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:47,000 there's some physical differences 726 00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:48,890 medical differences you found is there 727 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:51,620 any tell us about that so a number of 728 00:31:58,750 --> 00:31:55,850 the mediums on our team have fine having 729 00:32:02,260 --> 00:31:58,760 an autoimmune disorder myself I 730 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:02,270 recognize it and so they would say by a 731 00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:03,650 lot of them on our team a lot of 732 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:05,150 diseases as well I thought well that's 733 00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:07,330 interesting is there something about 734 00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:10,640 mediumship that's causing disease so we 735 00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:14,000 did a study where we drew blood and we 736 00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:16,460 took physiological measurements of 737 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:19,190 mediums doing readings and then doing a 738 00:32:23,410 --> 00:32:20,930 control condition and we look like is 739 00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:23,420 there something that is there bloggers 740 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:26,240 are changing even as as anything 741 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:28,370 changing in their blood these different 742 00:32:32,740 --> 00:32:30,770 blood I think it would be like 30 blood 743 00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:32,750 components like is anything changing and 744 00:32:40,030 --> 00:32:36,590 what we found was nothing changed mark 745 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:40,040 joked you could have had a political 746 00:32:43,450 --> 00:32:42,350 discussion a heated political discussion 747 00:32:45,310 --> 00:32:43,460 with so much they would have had a 748 00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:45,320 bigger physiological response and we 749 00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:47,540 were seeing so it wasn't any change so 750 00:32:53,170 --> 00:32:51,350 that made me think well why did they 751 00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:53,180 have this higher disease prevalence then 752 00:33:00,340 --> 00:32:56,150 and so we asked when we did the big 753 00:33:03,510 --> 00:33:00,350 survey study we had a lot more mediums 754 00:33:07,660 --> 00:33:03,520 200 mediums answering these questions 755 00:33:10,810 --> 00:33:07,670 they also showed a lot higher incidence 756 00:33:14,260 --> 00:33:10,820 of autoimmune disorders and all kinds of 757 00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:14,270 disease processes and what I had I've 758 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:16,070 been learning about when all of this was 759 00:33:22,510 --> 00:33:19,690 happening was that childhood trauma 760 00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:22,520 causes disease in adults and that's been 761 00:33:26,110 --> 00:33:23,960 well established 762 00:33:28,450 --> 00:33:26,120 just in the general population childhood 763 00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:28,460 trauma results in adult disease and so I 764 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:30,110 wanted to see well as that what's going 765 00:33:33,490 --> 00:33:31,610 on because it doesn't seem like the 766 00:33:36,790 --> 00:33:33,500 mediumship readings in and of themselves 767 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:36,800 are maybe causing the problems is it a 768 00:33:43,630 --> 00:33:40,610 history of abuse and so we gave the 769 00:33:45,820 --> 00:33:43,640 mediums in the survey study a childhood 770 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:45,830 abuse scale and they scored off the 771 00:33:48,730 --> 00:33:46,490 charts 772 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:48,740 so there that I'm not the first person 773 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:52,130 to say that there have been other people 774 00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:53,570 have talked about this relationship 775 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:54,950 between child abuse and psychic 776 00:34:00,490 --> 00:33:58,010 abilities and there are theories about 777 00:34:03,850 --> 00:34:00,500 why that is that because you lived in an 778 00:34:05,530 --> 00:34:03,860 abusive situation you had to learn to 779 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:05,540 know when danger was coming when there 780 00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:07,690 was no sensory way you could know that 781 00:34:14,260 --> 00:34:10,700 and you had to and a lot of times abuse 782 00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:14,270 is associated with dissociation so maybe 783 00:34:19,930 --> 00:34:16,940 you learned how to achieve an altered 784 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:19,940 state that made you more receptive to be 785 00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:23,570 able to hear from the deceased yeah 786 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:25,730 someone asked me in a seminar once is 787 00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:29,090 does a dull abuse also result and I was 788 00:34:33,310 --> 00:34:31,040 like no don't go out and get in an 789 00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:33,320 abusive relationship so you can be a 790 00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:35,060 psychic that it doesn't work like that 791 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:36,560 but there does seem to be this 792 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:39,410 relationship between like in this survey 793 00:34:46,390 --> 00:34:43,130 study the people who identified as 794 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:46,400 mediums scored statistically higher in 795 00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,770 these of beingness on this childhood 796 00:34:53,620 --> 00:34:50,720 abuse scale than did people who 797 00:34:55,330 --> 00:34:53,630 identified as not mediums so it there 798 00:34:57,550 --> 00:34:55,340 seems to be at least a relationship I 799 00:35:00,130 --> 00:34:57,560 don't know if it's and there also was 800 00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:00,140 this higher incidence of disease so I 801 00:35:08,110 --> 00:35:04,280 think maybe it's not that mediumship 802 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:08,120 causes disease it's that trauma causes 803 00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:10,930 mediumship and trauma causes disease 804 00:35:17,470 --> 00:35:14,420 that's my that's my hypothesis working 805 00:35:18,580 --> 00:35:17,480 working theory is it work which is kind 806 00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:18,590 of interesting because it kind of 807 00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,060 touches on something we talked about a 808 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:22,640 minute ago in the last interview and 809 00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:25,330 that is the relationship between 810 00:35:30,580 --> 00:35:28,550 parapsychology which is the closest 811 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:30,590 thing we have to scientific legitimacy 812 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:34,730 in this area and survival research and 813 00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:36,410 those lines are getting blurred I mean 814 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:37,520 your work is 815 00:35:40,810 --> 00:35:39,170 blurring those loves cuz you as you said 816 00:35:43,570 --> 00:35:40,820 are doing a little bit of an end run on 817 00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:43,580 parapsychology not that you can get 818 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:44,870 along with those folks who like and 819 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:47,570 respect them but you really don't fall 820 00:35:52,930 --> 00:35:50,330 under that category nor do you fall 821 00:35:55,390 --> 00:35:52,940 under the category of near-death 822 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:55,400 experience although it's closely related 823 00:35:59,590 --> 00:35:57,170 because it again touches on this 824 00:36:00,970 --> 00:35:59,600 question of survival nor do you fall 825 00:36:03,250 --> 00:36:00,980 under you know we're talking about the 826 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:03,260 work at University of Virginia and Jim 827 00:36:08,350 --> 00:36:05,810 Tucker and his past life work which 828 00:36:10,660 --> 00:36:08,360 directly speaks to this question of 829 00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:10,670 survival so maybe you want to spend just 830 00:36:17,290 --> 00:36:13,520 a minute and talk about how all these 831 00:36:19,180 --> 00:36:17,300 things might relate and then I have a 832 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:19,190 follow-on question about that that 833 00:36:23,650 --> 00:36:21,050 relates back to the medical part and 834 00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:23,660 maybe causes us to take another look at 835 00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:27,200 this biological robot thing but first 836 00:36:32,350 --> 00:36:29,780 you know how does what you do 837 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:32,360 fall into the larger question of 838 00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:34,310 survival and I've just brought up on the 839 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:36,560 screen you know Leslie Kane who I did 840 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:38,090 interview with and has written this very 841 00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:40,610 popular book which tries to mainstream 842 00:36:46,570 --> 00:36:43,550 this idea that survival something that 843 00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:46,580 we can now accept we can kind of step in 844 00:36:52,030 --> 00:36:49,280 to talk about in an intelligent 845 00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:52,040 intellectual way among those gonna folks 846 00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,720 and you know what do you think about the 847 00:37:01,180 --> 00:36:58,640 broader question of survival and how 848 00:37:03,850 --> 00:37:01,190 that's being brought into the culture 849 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:03,860 accepted by the culture well yeah I 850 00:37:09,250 --> 00:37:06,290 don't consider myself a parapsychologist 851 00:37:11,340 --> 00:37:09,260 and traditionally parapsychology is 852 00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:11,350 described as studying the big four 853 00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:13,760 telepathy clairvoyance precognition and 854 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:17,230 psychokinesis and then the late great 855 00:37:23,770 --> 00:37:20,710 transpersonal psychologist William broad 856 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:23,780 once wrote you know the parapsychology 857 00:37:27,850 --> 00:37:25,310 was interested in the big four with an 858 00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:27,860 occasional nod to survival and afterlife 859 00:37:33,940 --> 00:37:29,960 topics so even in parapsychology it was 860 00:37:36,850 --> 00:37:33,950 Fringe and yeah I you know and as a 861 00:37:40,570 --> 00:37:36,860 community we we throat we tried 862 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:40,580 different labels for ourselves and right 863 00:37:46,540 --> 00:37:42,770 now I I'm liking a consciousness 864 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:46,550 researcher I think that's probably more 865 00:37:51,310 --> 00:37:48,530 descriptive because I'm not doing the 866 00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:51,320 big four I don't study the big four 867 00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:53,150 my study survival of consciousness so 868 00:38:01,660 --> 00:37:55,040 consciousness researcher seems to be a 869 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:01,670 better term and I think that the 870 00:38:06,430 --> 00:38:04,490 evidence for we you know the analogies 871 00:38:10,990 --> 00:38:06,440 been used it's like the idea of a bunch 872 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:11,000 of sticks so in any one of these we call 873 00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:13,090 them the planks in the survival platform 874 00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:15,710 near-death experiences chosen here 875 00:38:21,310 --> 00:38:18,160 remember past lives mediumship at abadox 876 00:38:23,830 --> 00:38:21,320 any one of them there are flaws to the 877 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:23,840 to the body of data but if you hold them 878 00:38:27,730 --> 00:38:26,090 you can break any one stick but if you 879 00:38:30,850 --> 00:38:27,740 hold them all together you cannot break 880 00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:30,860 the bundle of sticks so I think that's 881 00:38:38,050 --> 00:38:33,440 been well established and that the issue 882 00:38:41,350 --> 00:38:38,060 with it not having a secure foothold in 883 00:38:44,290 --> 00:38:41,360 the world is simply a reflection of 884 00:38:47,170 --> 00:38:44,300 human psychology it's people are not 885 00:38:50,860 --> 00:38:47,180 good at new things are changing their 886 00:38:52,990 --> 00:38:50,870 mind and especially people who sort of 887 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:53,000 their personality is that as as a 888 00:39:00,690 --> 00:38:57,290 Magdala based where they new things they 889 00:39:03,130 --> 00:39:00,700 are experienced as dangerous so they are 890 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:03,140 physiologically neurologically incapable 891 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:06,650 of being like calm and open-minded you 892 00:39:10,770 --> 00:39:08,210 know if you have a conversation with 893 00:39:13,870 --> 00:39:10,780 people about this topic and they yell 894 00:39:15,670 --> 00:39:13,880 they're not come they're not frontal 895 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:15,680 cortex having a discussion with you 896 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:18,170 their amygdala responding out of fear 897 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:21,410 and anger at these new things so there's 898 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:23,930 a lot of that in the world where we're 899 00:39:28,060 --> 00:39:25,490 never going to convince some people 900 00:39:30,670 --> 00:39:28,070 because it's just too physiologically 901 00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:30,680 neurologically dangerous for them to 902 00:39:36,670 --> 00:39:33,760 contemplate these things that I'm 903 00:39:40,990 --> 00:39:36,680 talking about do you have any thoughts 904 00:39:44,980 --> 00:39:41,000 Julie on what role technology might play 905 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:44,990 in getting this to the next level here 906 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:48,050 you know I just did an interview with 907 00:39:55,660 --> 00:39:51,110 the UFO researcher doctor and that 908 00:39:57,790 --> 00:39:55,670 doctor Stan and you know the UFO your 909 00:39:59,890 --> 00:39:57,800 section this is kind of interesting in 910 00:40:02,530 --> 00:39:59,900 that same extended consciousness realm 911 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:02,540 but one of the things that's challenging 912 00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:04,250 about this is the 913 00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:07,550 there does seem to be a technology angle 914 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:10,400 right around the corner even though we 915 00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:12,770 only approach it from scientifical you 916 00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:16,160 know you take remote viewing which we 917 00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:18,910 kind of accept again they took a 918 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:22,430 scientific double leg approached psychic 919 00:40:28,270 --> 00:40:25,310 work and we're able to be effective at 920 00:40:32,650 --> 00:40:28,280 it what happens when we go to the next 921 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:32,660 level and we use brain mapping and some 922 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:34,850 of the advanced neurological technique 923 00:40:40,330 --> 00:40:38,810 to kind of get us beyond right now and 924 00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:40,340 these there's these kind of tantalizing 925 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:43,700 evidence that technology might bring us 926 00:40:50,050 --> 00:40:46,730 closer to some form of communication 927 00:40:52,210 --> 00:40:50,060 with these extended consciousness realm 928 00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:52,220 you will do you have any thoughts on 929 00:40:57,610 --> 00:40:55,070 what role technology might play in the 930 00:41:00,100 --> 00:40:57,620 future in terms of changing how we think 931 00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:00,110 about this or making it I guess 932 00:41:03,340 --> 00:41:01,730 ultimately not just changing how we 933 00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:03,350 think about it but making it more 934 00:41:07,870 --> 00:41:04,880 effective what happens when your 935 00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:07,880 iPhone's money can do telepathy I mean 936 00:41:13,090 --> 00:41:10,790 what kind of future is that well I think 937 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:13,100 it actually goes the opposite way like 938 00:41:15,850 --> 00:41:14,450 that's a question I get all the time 939 00:41:19,770 --> 00:41:15,860 like well what happens in a mediums 940 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:19,780 brain but if we're talking about the 941 00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:23,330 opposition theory to material scientific 942 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:25,580 materialism is non-local consciousness 943 00:41:30,850 --> 00:41:28,490 which is consciousness exists everywhere 944 00:41:33,370 --> 00:41:30,860 and all throughout space and time and is 945 00:41:37,630 --> 00:41:33,380 just funneled through the brain like a 946 00:41:40,750 --> 00:41:37,640 radio antenna so that like why are we 947 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:40,760 even worried about the brain anymore it 948 00:41:45,010 --> 00:41:42,410 doesn't seem like that's where we are 949 00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:45,020 and and like we talked about this sort 950 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:46,790 of Venn diagram of mediumship and 951 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:50,930 psychic experiences and there there's a 952 00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:54,050 lot of overlap which so if you did brain 953 00:41:59,140 --> 00:41:56,560 mapping and brain imaging which is 954 00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,150 admittedly a study I have always wanted 955 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:02,480 to do is looking at mediums braiser in 956 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:09,290 various situations Michael Persinger 957 00:42:12,940 --> 00:42:11,210 I mean Michael Persinger up in Canada 958 00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:12,950 he's kind of taken a different level 959 00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:15,140 he's and a lot of people are with his 960 00:42:18,780 --> 00:42:16,720 research he's 961 00:42:20,970 --> 00:42:18,790 only napped the brain but he said okay 962 00:42:23,460 --> 00:42:20,980 telepathy here's how we do it and he 963 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:23,470 sent the message from here to here with 964 00:42:29,790 --> 00:42:26,290 electromagnetic stimulation and again 965 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:29,800 it's up with you you know but well Lyons 966 00:42:35,130 --> 00:42:32,290 you become blurry in a way I've been 967 00:42:37,020 --> 00:42:35,140 more open to lately in terms of 968 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:37,030 understanding that we have to appreciate 969 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:40,050 the technology is probably to have 970 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:42,730 something to say about how we think 971 00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:44,770 about this in the future and I just 972 00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:47,680 wonder if you have any thoughts on what 973 00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:50,560 that merger might be what just came into 974 00:42:56,580 --> 00:42:53,140 my mind was you know what we know about 975 00:42:59,580 --> 00:42:56,590 how to be more psychic is meditative 976 00:43:01,740 --> 00:42:59,590 practices and I think Americans are 977 00:43:04,380 --> 00:43:01,750 often like they don't they don't like to 978 00:43:06,330 --> 00:43:04,390 hear that because meditation people have 979 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:06,340 trouble clearing your their mind but 980 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:08,410 that's not what meditation is meditation 981 00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:11,770 is about focusing on something and the 982 00:43:16,770 --> 00:43:13,300 mind does not like to be clear it has 983 00:43:19,530 --> 00:43:16,780 jobs to do and telling it to shut off 984 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:19,540 it's not pleased with that at all and so 985 00:43:23,550 --> 00:43:21,730 focusing counting your breaths so I 986 00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:23,560 think where technology might come in 987 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:24,910 it's sort of in this consciousness 988 00:43:33,359 --> 00:43:28,930 hacking movement of technology helping 989 00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:33,369 us to learn how to how to focus and 990 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:37,270 breathe and countin so that we can have 991 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:41,170 access to those other realms if that's 992 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:43,050 the phrase that you want to use or this 993 00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:46,450 these other that your consciousness can 994 00:43:50,970 --> 00:43:48,940 can learn to be more non-local but it 995 00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:50,980 can learn to access this information 996 00:43:56,310 --> 00:43:54,880 that's separate from you locally I think 997 00:43:58,349 --> 00:43:56,320 maybe that's where technology but that 998 00:44:00,900 --> 00:43:58,359 we had talked about this earlier about 999 00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:00,910 the measurement of things like that's a 1000 00:44:05,970 --> 00:44:03,820 lot of what these systems do the 1001 00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:05,980 physical measurement of things and these 1002 00:44:11,010 --> 00:44:07,839 aren't physical things anymore and 1003 00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:11,020 there's a lot in the body that's that we 1004 00:44:14,849 --> 00:44:12,609 don't understand right the body is very 1005 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:14,859 efficient it doesn't do things it 1006 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:16,450 doesn't waste energy on things it 1007 00:44:22,020 --> 00:44:19,810 doesn't need to it but every cell since 1008 00:44:25,050 --> 00:44:22,030 the beginning of time every human cell 1009 00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:25,060 that has divided has spent the time and 1010 00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:27,910 energy and resources to replicate the 1011 00:44:34,270 --> 00:44:29,900 DNA in its entirety from the news 1012 00:44:36,460 --> 00:44:34,280 but 97% of that DNA doesn't do anything 1013 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:36,470 it doesn't code for any proteins but 1014 00:44:41,380 --> 00:44:38,690 we're still keeping it around so is it 1015 00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:41,390 like a homeopathic issue or the 1016 00:44:46,830 --> 00:44:44,480 energetics of the DNA is holding some 1017 00:44:49,810 --> 00:44:46,840 information that doesn't have a physical 1018 00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:49,820 manifestation so there's lots of things 1019 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:52,700 that we already know in biology and 1020 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:55,490 other fields that if you can't measure 1021 00:44:59,020 --> 00:44:57,410 those kind of things but they continue 1022 00:45:00,940 --> 00:44:59,030 to exist and you know what's a 1023 00:45:03,610 --> 00:45:00,950 phenomenon that we can't explain why we 1024 00:45:05,290 --> 00:45:03,620 on why we dream what we blush there's no 1025 00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:05,300 we don't understand that whether there 1026 00:45:09,970 --> 00:45:06,950 was our common experiences that people 1027 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:09,980 have and so you know there's this idea 1028 00:45:14,620 --> 00:45:12,170 of like we have to embrace mystery at 1029 00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:14,630 some point - we might not be able to 1030 00:45:18,460 --> 00:45:16,400 measure everything or bring everything 1031 00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:18,470 into the lab or image everything or 1032 00:45:24,910 --> 00:45:21,110 count everything and that's part of 1033 00:45:26,620 --> 00:45:24,920 human experience I'm important I think 1034 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:26,630 that also speaks to something you 1035 00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:29,090 mentioned early on and that's why we 1036 00:45:36,610 --> 00:45:33,710 need people to focus on one thing - it 1037 00:45:39,010 --> 00:45:36,620 really well and that I guess is really 1038 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:39,020 what you're trying to do it a twin 1039 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:42,890 bridge so tell people more as we wrap up 1040 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:46,370 about what is coming up for you 1041 00:45:51,700 --> 00:45:49,370 what do you think is important on the 1042 00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:51,710 horizon what you want to accomplish with 1043 00:45:59,620 --> 00:45:53,900 some of the your tournaments that your 1044 00:46:01,450 --> 00:45:59,630 work well our overall arching mission is 1045 00:46:03,820 --> 00:46:01,460 to alleviate suffering and so we're 1046 00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:03,830 using rigorous scientific research and 1047 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:05,270 then sharing the results of that 1048 00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:08,330 research with different audiences 1049 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:10,400 clinicians researchers the general 1050 00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:13,010 public practitioners in a way that 1051 00:46:17,740 --> 00:46:16,070 benefits them and alleviate suffering in 1052 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:17,750 that like mediums need to know about 1053 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:20,210 common things like you're not weird this 1054 00:46:25,810 --> 00:46:22,130 is how other mediums experience it and 1055 00:46:27,850 --> 00:46:25,820 you know there are there's no you know 1056 00:46:29,410 --> 00:46:27,860 the this idea there's physical 1057 00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:29,420 mediumship and there's and there's 1058 00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:32,480 mental mediumship but the state of 1059 00:46:38,050 --> 00:46:35,780 trance that happens is a continuum in 1060 00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:38,060 either of those kinds so to call someone 1061 00:46:43,260 --> 00:46:41,030 a trance medium that's not really an 1062 00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:43,270 accurate way to think about it because 1063 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:44,950 different mediums at different times or 1064 00:46:49,380 --> 00:46:47,290 in different events are in various 1065 00:46:51,660 --> 00:46:49,390 stages of trance so there's a lot of 1066 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:51,670 problems with language and so trying to 1067 00:46:56,730 --> 00:46:53,890 teach people like oh you may have heard 1068 00:46:59,700 --> 00:46:56,740 this you may have you know heard someone 1069 00:47:01,650 --> 00:46:59,710 say clairvoyant but it seems that the 1070 00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:01,660 mediumship process is actually a multi 1071 00:47:08,430 --> 00:47:05,110 modal situation where the medium see and 1072 00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:08,440 hear and feel smell and taste and so 1073 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:12,220 people can we can just normalize all of 1074 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:14,850 this stuff I think it's the sort of the 1075 00:47:19,980 --> 00:47:17,530 bottom line of anything is you know 1076 00:47:21,870 --> 00:47:19,990 here's what we know you know this a 1077 00:47:24,990 --> 00:47:21,880 hundred and twenty two mediums talked 1078 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:25,000 about their their experiences during 1079 00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:27,130 psychic readings for the living and they 1080 00:47:33,570 --> 00:47:29,680 experienced dead people as part of that 1081 00:47:35,550 --> 00:47:33,580 experience so this idea of that dead 1082 00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:35,560 people are with mediumship and no dead 1083 00:47:39,870 --> 00:47:37,150 people are with psychic like no there 1084 00:47:43,020 --> 00:47:39,880 seems to be overlap and the way that we 1085 00:47:45,810 --> 00:47:43,030 use terminology to like delineate things 1086 00:47:48,090 --> 00:47:45,820 does not seem appropriate and we have to 1087 00:47:49,980 --> 00:47:48,100 you know at the end of the day all we 1088 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:49,990 can do is ask people about their 1089 00:47:55,650 --> 00:47:52,330 experiences and then we have to study 1090 00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:55,660 that we have to take we have to realize 1091 00:48:02,010 --> 00:47:58,720 that the experience is important in and 1092 00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:02,020 of itself like I saw a family on TV the 1093 00:48:06,660 --> 00:48:03,760 other day and they had a child who he 1094 00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:06,670 was one of seven kids in the world who 1095 00:48:11,220 --> 00:48:08,710 had the specific disease that he had 1096 00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:11,230 that diseases were studying even if it 1097 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:13,510 was one kid that diseases were studying 1098 00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:15,850 but this this idea of mediumship which 1099 00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:17,920 is a relatively common right like with 1100 00:48:24,359 --> 00:48:21,119 our limited email list and Facebook 1101 00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:24,369 following we were able to get 1,300 1102 00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:26,680 people to answer all these survey 1103 00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:28,510 questions and so there are a lot of 1104 00:48:33,420 --> 00:48:30,940 mediums in the world is what that and 1105 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:33,430 especially we know you know these are us 1106 00:48:37,980 --> 00:48:34,930 mediums so there's a lot of meetings in 1107 00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:37,990 the country and that they should be 1108 00:48:42,510 --> 00:48:40,480 their experiences should be studied 1109 00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:42,520 because it's a really different 1110 00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:45,609 experience than our daily day-to-day 1111 00:48:51,290 --> 00:48:48,700 life that we have that most of us have 1112 00:48:56,540 --> 00:48:51,300 and so that it's an interesting 1113 00:48:59,370 --> 00:48:56,550 mechanism to study the the the 1114 00:49:01,200 --> 00:48:59,380 potential of human consciousness no it's 1115 00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:01,210 more than interesting it's more much 1116 00:49:07,710 --> 00:49:02,640 more than interesting it you make a 1117 00:49:09,810 --> 00:49:07,720 marvelous case right therefore I mean if 1118 00:49:10,890 --> 00:49:09,820 anyone stumbles across this and says oh 1119 00:49:15,060 --> 00:49:10,900 wow 1120 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:15,070 research on mediums you know you just 1121 00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:18,010 kind of brought it into focus in such a 1122 00:49:24,270 --> 00:49:21,760 wonderful way in terms of how there's so 1123 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:24,280 many just basic questions there that we 1124 00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,290 don't have the answer to we should have 1125 00:49:31,890 --> 00:49:28,480 the answer to everyone should care about 1126 00:49:34,050 --> 00:49:31,900 and it's just again amazing that our 1127 00:49:36,330 --> 00:49:34,060 broader scientific community isn't 1128 00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:36,340 interested in this but we have to be 1129 00:49:42,540 --> 00:49:39,369 glad that you and Mark are and that wind 1130 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:42,550 bridge is so it's great to have you on 1131 00:49:46,890 --> 00:49:44,770 again and to talk about all this and I 1132 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:46,900 hope people do follow up and check out 1133 00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:49,330 the site and follow your work because it 1134 00:49:56,070 --> 00:49:51,670 you've just made an awesome case of how 1135 00:49:57,810 --> 00:49:56,080 important it really is well thank you so 1136 00:49:59,730 --> 00:49:57,820 thanks for watching this video if it 1137 00:50:02,310 --> 00:49:59,740 wasn't really a video but just an audio 1138 00:50:03,870 --> 00:50:02,320 stored as a video well I apologize but 1139 00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:03,880 there's more videos out there as well 1140 00:50:07,650 --> 00:50:05,830 but please check out the skeptic Oh 1141 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:07,660 website you can see it here we cover a 1142 00:50:11,849 --> 00:50:09,010 lot of different stuff you might be 1143 00:50:15,150 --> 00:50:11,859 interested in relating to controversial 1144 00:50:18,570 --> 00:50:15,160 science and spirituality a lot of shows 1145 00:50:21,570 --> 00:50:18,580 up there over 350 of them or so all free 1146 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:21,580 all available for downloads so do check